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Thread: Official Sharp Elite PRO-xxX5FD Owners' Thread

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    Default Official Sharp Elite PRO-xxX5FD Owners' Thread

    werthliving.com

    NOTE: This report is my property and not to be copied elsewhere without my express permission. It is intended for use on and only on the following websites: highdefjunkies.com, hometheatershack.com and valueelectronics.com. Other sites have my permission to link to its location on either of the above sites, but not to reproduce it.


    Hi, everyone,

    Last weekend I had the exceptional fortune of seeing North America’s very first released production unit of the new 70” Sharp Elite television at ValueElectronics.com in Scarsdale, NY. As always, it was a great pleasure to visit with Robert, Wendy and their kids (I had not seen the Zohns in months).

    The first thing that really struck me about the Elite was its sheer size. Please do not underestimate the visual difference made by going from 60” to 70”; it’s impressive. Sure, going from 50” to 60” is an even bigger relative jump, but the additional move to 70” is plenty affecting – I guarantee it. The aesthetic beauty of the Elite was the second thing that stood out. In the glossy screen, in the shape and color of the bezel and even in the gold Elite logo, the TV unquestionably was achingly proud of itself. Now, I’m not a guy who gets all worked up over the aesthetics of these things (hey, I just watch ‘em, you know?), so that stuff had no real influence on me, but I know it does matter to many other folks, and they should rest content that it is indeed externally beautiful.

    Now on to the performance: my first quibble with the Elite is that its screen is very reflective and therefore does not appreciate having any bright windows sitting opposite it. It was no more reflective than all the other glossy-screened TVs on the market right now, but also no less so. The picture easily gets as bright as anyone would need, mind you, but that won’t eliminate reflections, and the reflections from Robert’s store window were distracting in the afternoon sun. Even so, I’ll take a glossy screen over a matte or semi-matte one any day of any week and count myself lucky in the exchange. Matte and semi-matte screens, while they do lessen the effect of reflections, also block some of the light getting emitted from the TV, which significantly degrades picture quality (principally by degrading the perceived contrast levels on the screen). My own position on dealing with window reflections is very simple: anyone who is willing to spend upwards of $8,000 on a single television has no rational business subsequently getting cheap when it comes to investing in some good, thick window curtains. Many aesthetically pleasing varieties and colors are available at any local Target store and, of course, online (I got mine from Amazon). In my opinion it’s just worth it.

    Even with the window reflections BFJ96 and I saw on the TV, though, the picture in uncalibrated Movie THX mode was outstanding. It was, by far, the best, most accurate out-of-the-box picture I have ever seen on any flat-screen TV. The RGB balance in the grayscale was so close to reference that none of us could even find any but the most trivial instances of coloration in the grayscale gradient ramps. As I recall, there was just a tiny bit of green down somewhere around 15 or 20 IRE and a teensy bit of the same up around 50 IRE or so, but both were so subtle, they were initially undetectable; I had to stare long and hard at those ramps to find them. I did see some mild variations in the gamma on the ramps, but even those are detectable only by a trained eye.

    Because the store was very active that day and because I had to wait for darkness to really check out the Elite’s performance, I was unable to conduct a calibration on the TV. I did do some simple, basic picture adjustment with my Spears and Munsil and AVSHD discs, but never used my meters at all. That was a bummer to me, but what could I do? The place was hopping like crazy with customers streaming in and out of the store and the sunlight on the screen during daylight ruled out any serious calibration work.

    Even so, I did finally manage to find some flaws in the TV once the Sun went down. Specifically, there was some mild flashlighting in all four corners of the screen. There was more of it on the right side than the left with this unit, but all four corners had just a little bit of it. The flashlighting was sufficiently mild that I doubt anyone would ever notice it except when looking at a 0% signal in a very dark room. That was the only time I managed to catch it, anyway. Uniformity on a white screen was, as Kevin already said, bloody well perfect. I mean, it was perfect. Local dimming halos/blooming were nowhere to be seen when viewing the TV from on axis and very, very mild but ultimately detectable when viewing it from off axis.

    Also, I am very happy to report that the whole-screen floating black levels that are so common on LED-lit TVs simply did not happen on the Sharp Elite. I used the fabulous new Extended Edition Fellowship of the Ring BluRay to look for this, as its opening scenes work great for revealing it: I saw no floating whatsoever. A dark background with text in the middle of the screen was exactly as dark as a total 0% signal using test patterns. Ditto for dark areas of the background when viewing mixed content. Now, how did Sharp and Pioneer manage to achieve this, you ask? Well, they set up the LED backlight so that it never actually turns all the way off. The LEDs do get very, very dark, but they never quite turn all the way off, and that’s as it should be. When LEDs turn all the way off in any LED-lit LCD, you get those horrid screen-wide floating black levels for one thing, and you also get an artifact whereby the LEDs will leave a slight afterimage of light trailing after objects during fast motion in high-contrast scenes. This happens because the LEDs have slower response rates than the LCD pixels, so the backlight cannot quite keep up with all the screen transitions getting displayed. Much of the reason for this delay in LED response comes from the fact that LEDs are much slower about going from an Off state to an On state or vice versa than they are about going from high to low or low to high On states. The best solution for this, then, is to set the backlight so that it never quite turns all the way off, but still gets as dark as the LEDs can while still remaining switched on. The Elite does this and does it better than any other LED-lit TV I’ve seen. This is one area where companies like Samsung and LG really have a lot to learn. I advise them to study the X5FD Elites very closely and do everything they can to mimic them.

    Motion resolution on the Elites is substantially better than I’ve seen on any other LCDs, but still not as good as on the better plasmas (Robert and Wendy’s VT30, for instance, handled fast and mixed motion far better). The SOE effect, I am happy to report, was nowhere to be seen when sticking just with the 120hz interpolation software. Only when activating Fluid Motion did we see any SOE. So here, too, everything Kevin Miller said in his review was spot on. (Duh! Wotta surprise.)

    Now I come to my last point, where I found something very interesting about the causes of which I can only speculate at this time. In the videos I took of the TV, viewers will note that the screen seems to flicker a lot. That, I assure you, is entirely a function of my camera and in no way visible to the naked eye, even when blinking really fast to try and catch it. Believe me, I tried. Visually the picture is perfect. On the video footage, though, I did find several scenes wherein the flickering went away. For instance, have a look at the opening title scene from inside Bilbo’s Smial, especially when the camera is focused on the map during Ian Holms’ voiceover. There I see no flickering on the video at all. Now, why would this be?? Why would the video camera manage to pick up this visually imperceptible flicker in one sort of scene, but not in another??? It’s all very intriguing, isn’t it? Here’s my current hypothesis: the flickering that the video camera registers is coming from rapid refreshing of the local dimming zones in the backlight, which will occur anytime there’s any sort of mixed content on the screen for which their dimming functions might be needed. When there is no such mixed content, though, the zones stop their rapid refreshing and just stay in a fixed state until called to do otherwise. During that map scene, after all, the screen content is very uniform and nearly static. Once some mixed content gets on there, though, the rapid zone-refreshing starts back up and my video footage starts to flicker again. Please note well: this is only an untutored hypothesis that I have formed. To know for sure what’s going on there, we’ll need the expertise of Kevin Miller and/or D-Nice.

    In sum, I'll say this 70" Elite is, by some margin, the best TV I've seen this year. I cannot say if it bests the 9.5G Kuros in my opinion until I've had quite a bit more time to work on and compare one without distractions and without light pollution issues. It certainly seems like it could match or even best them, though.

    Okay, so that’s my report. I’m sorry it took me so long to write it up and post it, but school has started back up at my college and I have been very busy with all of that. This coming Tuesday is the first day of classes, you see, so I’ve been spending the bulk of my time preparing.

    Yours,

    David
    Last edited by davidjschenk; 08-26-2011 at 02:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread

    Beyond their ability to show the variation in the TV's producing a flicker effect on my video camera, I don't imagine these videos will provide a whole lot of useful information for technically savvy enthusiasts. They're just intended to show (1) how doggoned big that screen is (my camera was five feet away from the screen and zoomed all the way out, but it still couldn't get the entire picture on screen), and (2) how smooth the local dimming software is on it.

    -David

    Video #1:

    Video #2:

    Video #3:
    Last edited by davidjschenk; 08-26-2011 at 02:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread

    This is just to tempting, ok I'll bite ;p Hello everyone! I should be getting my PRO-70X5FD early next month but I'm hoping for late Aug delivery, wishful thinking I know but hey lol. Oh and I'm eagerly awaiting more reviews of the Sharp*PRO-60X5FD and PRO-70X5FD as we get closer to the release date. I'm very curious about the MML Black Level readings as compared to the Kuro line and the 929. I am thinking we all might have to Waite until the showdown to get our full answers though since all these TV's will be side by side for direct comparison, fun times.

    I think Chad's and D-Nice's review or posts should be coming out soon from what I can gather. I just found this post thanks to D-Nice's help ;p so I'm looking forward to reading what he has to say about the Sharp*PRO-60X5FD and PRO-70X5FD. I know he loves his Kuro's but maybe after he gets a chance to work with one in person he will be tempted snag up one of these bad boys up for his collection!

    "Originally Posted by D-Nice
    I am scheduled to calibrate 4 60X5s the weekend of 8/20. I'll be sure to critique it as it will be in the same vicinity as a 141FD and 500M.... and check ANSI measurements.
    Sharp Elite PRO- 70X5FD
    Pioneer Elite VSX- 52 (A/V receiver)
    Pioneer Elite BDP3FD (Blu-Ray) Player
    Surround sound system: B&W (2) CM8's, (1) CENTER CHANNEL, (2) CM1 BOOKSHELF MONITORS's, (1) ASW10CM ACTIVE SUBWOOFER.

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread

    Can I pretend to be an owner and post :-)

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzook View Post
    Can I pretend to be an owner and post :-)
    Of course. I don't have one yet, either, after all. But I will be looking at one, taking video of it, and trying to calibrate it next week.

    Yours,

    David

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by davidjschenk View Post
    Of course. I don't have one yet, either, after all. But I will be looking at one, taking video of it, and trying to calibrate it next week.

    Yours,

    David
    +1
    Sharp Elite PRO- 70X5FD
    Pioneer Elite VSX- 52 (A/V receiver)
    Pioneer Elite BDP3FD (Blu-Ray) Player
    Surround sound system: B&W (2) CM8's, (1) CENTER CHANNEL, (2) CM1 BOOKSHELF MONITORS's, (1) ASW10CM ACTIVE SUBWOOFER.

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread

    I am trying to convince myself to skip the initial availability in hopes that the price goes down after a few months given light sales. I have to assume the 70" in particular isn't going to move fast at $8500 with two local dealers suggesting no budging on price. The profit margin on these have to be astounding.

    Anyhow, I'd be interested to know how quickly the basic picture settings will show up on tweaktv.com for the 70". I tried the settings from tweaktv.com on my 52XBR4 and had to change it back to my settings because the whites were just TOO yellow and overall colors didn't look right. Are the settings on tweaktv per model considered to be hit or miss? Or am I simply too used to what I've been seeing for years such that the recommended settings on tweaktv look wrong even though they're right?

    Without professional calibration, how far removed from perfection will the picture quality be for X5FD owners using simple picture settings provided by the community?

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread

    azaze1, in Kevin Miller's review he reported the THX mode is well calibrated at the factory and did not take much work to dial it in perfectly. However, the TV does have ISF day/night modes and I would suggest these will be the best modes to have the TV calibrated in.

    Check around with your favorite retailers and I think you will be happy with the initial promotional offers.

    -Robert

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Zohn View Post
    azaze1, in Kevin Miller's review he reported the THX mode is well calibrated at the factory and did not take much work to dial it in perfectly. However, the TV does have ISF day/night modes and I would suggest these will be the best modes to have the TV calibrated in.

    Check around with your favorite retailers and I think you will be happy with the initial promotional offers.

    -Robert
    Thanks Robert,

    Regarding the ISF Day/Night. Is this something that you configure once and the display switches between the two automatically based on time of day or some environmental detection? Or do you have to toggle between the two on demand with the remote?

    As for promotional offers, that sounds promising but here in Orange County CA... I've probed two stores to test the waters of negotiation and have nothing to show for it. Either my tactics need work or the stores here are not interested in sales as much as holding steady at MSRP. I was able to get 12% off MSRP preordering my 52XBR4 back in 2007 6 weeks before they began shipping. That took a 30 second conversation with a salesman. No such luck so far on the Elites.

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread

    azaze1, The user has to switch between ISF day and ISF night it is not automatic. I leave my two personal VT30s in ISF night and when we want a brighter image we switch to ISF day.

    The Elite's don't have the m/u % some folks are suggesting. Pioneer and Sharp tell me it's very expensive to build these new Elite TVs. In our case we added some very nice value added benefits to make our offer as compelling as possible. You will also benefit by out of state vendors not collecting CA sales tax.

    -Robert

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread

    Long time lurker, first time poster. I've read all the AVS and HDJ posts and I've been waiting for this set for quite awhile... well at least I've been waiting a 3D LCD with full local dimming for awhile. I needed something to replace my my aging LC-65D64U. First I thought it was going to be the LC-70LE935U then I saw Robert's post and pics from his trip to Sharp HQ and got really excited.

    Anyway, I pulled the trigger today and pre-ordered the 70" from Best Buy in Portland, OR. I strongly considered going with VE (thank you Robert for all your insightful posts!) but I have a 0% interest line of credit with BB. Target delivery is mid-September so only 864 more hours of waiting

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by davisd View Post
    Long time lurker, first time poster. I've read all the AVS and HDJ posts and I've been waiting for this set for quite awhile... well at least I've been waiting a 3D LCD with full local dimming for awhile. I needed something to replace my my aging LC-65D64U. First I thought it was going to be the LC-70LE935U then I saw Robert's post and pics from his trip to Sharp HQ and got really excited.

    Anyway, I pulled the trigger today and pre-ordered the 70" from Best Buy in Portland, OR. I strongly considered going with VE (thank you Robert for all your insightful posts!) but I have a 0% interest line of credit with BB. Target delivery is mid-September so only 864 more hours of waiting
    Grats! I have my PRO-70X5FD on order as well, when is your delivery date? Oh and welcome to the Elite club!
    Sharp Elite PRO- 70X5FD
    Pioneer Elite VSX- 52 (A/V receiver)
    Pioneer Elite BDP3FD (Blu-Ray) Player
    Surround sound system: B&W (2) CM8's, (1) CENTER CHANNEL, (2) CM1 BOOKSHELF MONITORS's, (1) ASW10CM ACTIVE SUBWOOFER.

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread

    Thanks!

    Target is 9/15. They said I was the first in PacNW to order the 70".

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by davisd View Post
    Thanks!

    Target is 9/15. They said I was the first in PacNW to order the 70".
    J-E-A-L-O-U-S.

    *sigh*

    -David

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by davisd View Post
    Thanks!

    Target is 9/15. They said I was the first in PacNW to order the 70".
    +1

    I'm set for the 8th
    Sharp Elite PRO- 70X5FD
    Pioneer Elite VSX- 52 (A/V receiver)
    Pioneer Elite BDP3FD (Blu-Ray) Player
    Surround sound system: B&W (2) CM8's, (1) CENTER CHANNEL, (2) CM1 BOOKSHELF MONITORS's, (1) ASW10CM ACTIVE SUBWOOFER.

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by davisd View Post
    Long time lurker, first time poster. I've read all the AVS and HDJ posts and I've been waiting for this set for quite awhile... well at least I've been waiting a 3D LCD with full local dimming for awhile. I needed something to replace my my aging LC-65D64U. First I thought it was going to be the LC-70LE935U then I saw Robert's post and pics from his trip to Sharp HQ and got really excited.

    Anyway, I pulled the trigger today and pre-ordered the 70" from Best Buy in Portland, OR. I strongly considered going with VE (thank you Robert for all your insightful posts!) but I have a 0% interest line of credit with BB. Target delivery is mid-September so only 864 more hours of waiting
    Very cool!! Congratulations!!!

    I did want you to know we have 18 months interest free financing that we offer through GE Money Bank.

    Tomorrow at precisely 3 PM I will make a major announcement on HDJ. So don't turn the dial, stay tuned!

    -Robert

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Zohn View Post
    Very cool!! Congratulations!!!

    I did want you to know we have 18 months interest free financing that we offer through GE Money Bank.

    Tomorrow at precisely 3 PM I will make a major announcement on HDJ. So don't turn the dial, stay tuned!

    -Robert
    I've never checked a pair of threads more frequently in my lifetime. This isn't helping! Shall we assume 3:00pm is Eastern time?

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread

    Yes, sorry I did not say so 3 PM EST. I'm pushing very hard to make the announcement earlier so stay tuned for any updates.

    -Robert

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Zohn View Post
    Yes, sorry I did not say so 3 PM EST. I'm pushing very hard to make the announcement earlier so stay tuned for any updates.

    -Robert
    Should I have my heart medication handy?

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    Default Re: Official Sharp PRO-xxX5FD Elite Owners' Thread


    Only if you were in my store ^^. Over the Internet it will be very exciting, but in person you would need the heart medication and you will still get weak knees.

    -Robert

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