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Thread: Audyssey Vs. MCACC

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    HDJ Platinum Club Member Disco Batman's Avatar
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    Default Audyssey Vs. MCACC

    werthliving.com

    I've read around the net, but I want to see what my fellow junkies prefer and why.
    I own some stuff.

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    Super Moderator mytime's Avatar
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    Great thread idea. I myself have never used MCACC so I can't contribute. Would love to hear others opinions on this though.
    L2W you will be missed.

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    Super Moderator GOS's Avatar
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    Exactly - but it would be nice to hear from those that have experienced both.... not just pro this or pro that cause "I have it".
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    Official Boomoo Reviewer Barney_DaPurple1's Avatar
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    I've used the Audyssey on the Onkyo 805 several times. I can't comment?

    What about the YoPow calibration the new Yamahas are using?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barney_DaPurple1 View Post
    I've used the Audyssey on the Onkyo 805 several times. I can't comment?

    What about the YoPow calibration the new Yamahas are using?
    We can certainly add that into the conversation. I just don't buy receivers from companies that also make dirt bikes. And yes, please comment on how you feel about Audyssey.
    I own some stuff.

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    HDJ Platinum Club Member gadgtfreek's Avatar
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    Just from my recent research:

    Audyssey - Easy;more of a one shot deal;cannot make certain adjustments afterwards because it adversely affects the filters

    MCACC - Initial setup is easy; certain models only take one listening point, as opposed to audysseys 3, 6, or more; once you take your readings, it's highly customizable interface allows for all kinds of tweaking, but you need to read up on it.

    YPAO - Simplest of the bunch, I dont know if it applies filters, but it does the chirp thing to set speaker levels and such; was generally commented as the worst of the bunch

    When I was looking hard at a new receiver, I was leaning toward Pio because I was pissed at Denon. Well, I read the MCACC thread at AVS, and to be honest, I did not even wanna begin to F with that process. One good and bad thing about Audyssey, is it does all the work for you, so if I was looking, I'd shoot for a unit with MultiEq XT, which is nine measurement points IIRC. The Audyssey setup guide over there shows you how straight forward it can be.

    I think Id compare them to tweaker vs non tweaker. If you'd like to move the mic around in a quiet room a few times, and let the rcvr give you good sound, without any more hassle, Audyssey. If you want it to setup a baseline, for personal twaeking, MCACC gives you more options. Im not convinced the "room correction" filter process beats manual calibration anyways.

    Id look at them this way, the Audyssey setup and filters base themselves to room acoustics and such (room correction eq), as MCACC is more a basic speaker setup system (trim levels and distance; it does room correction, but I do not think it is as advanced). Now MCACC offers a 9band eq, which I think does more, but all of this gets confusing. I also read the MCACC does not make any sub level adjustments, which I disagree with (Audyssey does it quite well).

    So, after all that gibberish, the answer is both owners like em, and I saw several comments either way. I think it'd be something you needed to try yourself. I'll throw this kink in there for you. I let my Denon/Audyssey run the 6 position, then I cut off ALL Audyssey features. I then checked speaker measurements with a tape, and they were spot on (most systems can get this right). I then tweaked trim levels with a SPL meter, from the central position. The Audyssey settings were close, but not perfect, especially the center. I then changed the Audyssey observed Xover (wrong) settings to the manufacturer recommendations.

    What Im finding now, is I like the sound better, and Im hearing more direction. If something happens off screen to the right, I can easily tell it's to the right. Seemed to blend more before, and maybe that was the Audyssey filter. IMO, "room correction" is best left off and a $50 SPL meter is a valuable tool.

    My best advice, other than buying two rcvr's , is to read up on what both do (lot of reading on the net), and see if one is more important to you. Id not let it drive your purchase, because both are quality programs, and it comes down more to the hardware and which rcvr fits your price/feature set. Then, Id recommend a manual setup with accurate measurements and the SPL meter.

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    HighDef Monkie jollo's Avatar
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    I had an older Denon (a 987) and now I have a Pioneer SC-27. Obviously this is just my opinion, but I hated Audyssey and always ended up turning it off after listening to material with it on for a few days. I do like MCACC on the Pioneer and use it. The big plus for me is that I can tweak the MCACC curves to my liking. Both Audyssey and MCACC make my speakers sound too bright and bass shy for my tastes without tweaking.

    MCACC does an interesting thing with time alignment of the audio frequencies they call full band phase control, which is a separate function that you can turn on or off. I like what it does, so I leave it on.

    So -- MCACC is much more configurable. There are three separate sections that you can turn on or off to suite your tastes. There are the calculated EQ curves, the standing wave calculations and the time alignment calculations. The version of Audyssey that my Denon had was take it or leave it, all or nothing.

    I've read most of what I can find about audio calibration on the web and I'm pretty sure I'm doing it correctly. I use a mic stand to hold the calibration mic when doing the setup and I even have a mic shockmount elastic thang (I used to play in bands before I got old and tired).

    Here's my setup in case you are wondering: 5.1 with Axiom speakers and an SVS sub. My room isn't acoustically treated but I have the sub sitting on an Auralex subdude to keep the rattling at bay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jollo View Post
    I had an older Denon (a 987) and now I have a Pioneer SC-27. Obviously this is just my opinion, but I hated Audyssey and always ended up turning it off after listening to material with it on for a few days. I do like MCACC on the Pioneer and use it. The big plus for me is that I can tweak the MCACC curves to my liking. Both Audyssey and MCACC make my speakers sound too bright and bass shy for my tastes without tweaking.

    MCACC does an interesting thing with time alignment of the audio frequencies they call full band phase control, which is a separate function that you can turn on or off. I like what it does, so I leave it on.

    So -- MCACC is much more configurable. There are three separate sections that you can turn on or off to suite your tastes. There are the calculated EQ curves, the standing wave calculations and the time alignment calculations. The version of Audyssey that my Denon had was take it or leave it, all or nothing.

    I've read most of what I can find about audio calibration on the web and I'm pretty sure I'm doing it correctly. I use a mic stand to hold the calibration mic when doing the setup and I even have a mic shockmount elastic thang (I used to play in bands before I got old and tired).

    Here's my setup in case you are wondering: 5.1 with Axiom speakers and an SVS sub. My room isn't acoustically treated but I have the sub sitting on an Auralex subdude to keep the rattling at bay.
    Ive seen a lot of people say exactly that. Have you every just set it up yourself with the filters/curves, with a meter?

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    Will Work For Whisky nobsplease's Avatar
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    Haven't had much experience with Audessy. Lots of experience with YPAO, ARC (Anthem) and MCACC. YPAO implementation in RXA2000/3000 is excellent and includes echo measurement so it's very good with larger rooms over 2000 cu/ft. It also has complete control over all parameters if you like to improve on the machine's opinions. It is sometimes a little wonky with phase on certain speakers in a system set-up but if your wiring is correct, you can safely ignore the out of phase info. MCACC is very accurate as well. The number and type of interesting noises it sends through speakers makes it seem more capable but RTA measurements indicate that both systems are very close. Anthem's ARC requires an outboard computer for it's calculations. You get a microphone calibrated individually for each receiver or processer that plugs into the computer. It's the very best I've heard and the only one that consistently gets the bass EQ right.

    Sherwood Newcastle's R 972 uses a correction system called Trinnov Optimiser which looks, on the surface, to be really accurate. The microphone alone is exotic enough to be interesting. Does anyone have any experience with this?
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    Sounds like, as with Audyssey and Pio, the more you spend on a Yammie the better SW you get. A person Ive talked to for awhile, on another forum, installs HT and he pushed me towards Yammie's, if I was gonna give Denon the boot. Supposed to be a real warm sound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elwaylite View Post
    Sounds like, as with Audyssey and Pio, the more you spend on a Yammie the better SW you get. A person Ive talked to for awhile, on another forum, installs HT and he pushed me towards Yammie's, if I was gonna give Denon the boot. Supposed to be a real warm sound.
    My step dad has a Yammy going through Bose speakers and his system sounds good....well did have. The Yammy finally quit and he hasn't bought a new one yet. I would agree on a warm sound, and I'd say Onkyo is warm. I've only owned Onkyo AVR's the last 8 years or so.

    A AVR is likely to be my only purchase this year on Home Theater equipment. I would love to replace my satellites to match my all Polk front's, center and sub, but I just don't have the room for em. I'm really leaning Denon or Pioneer for my next unit hence the question, not leaving Onkyo for any specific reason. My 605 has been great, I just want to try something new for newness sake. I'm looking to spend less than 1K. I'll prob wait till this years models are out, then if they aren't offering something far and away better than last years models I'll try to find a closeout on a '10 model.
    I own some stuff.

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    The 1120 Pio is real nice, and not being produced anymore, so keep an eye on it. The 2311 Denon is real cheap too.

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    Super Moderator mytime's Avatar
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    The only problem I has with Audyssey was to due to user error. I set my fronts to full band instead of small and in turn it had my bass set to 40.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mytime View Post
    The only problem I has with Audyssey was to due to user error. I set my fronts to full band instead of small and in turn it had my bass set to 40.
    Yeah, that is a common and potentially speaker-busting problem when using small speakers. They must be set to small to limit the deep bass signal and keep the magic blue smoke in the speaker wires. I've had some interesting discussions with customers that thought set-up was for everyone else. In they walk with a fried speaker after connecting the wire, loading up 2012 and setting the volume to 11.
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    HighDef Monkie jollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elwaylite View Post
    Ive seen a lot of people say exactly that. Have you every just set it up yourself with the filters/curves, with a meter?
    I have set it up with a meter. I'm not so sure MCACC or Audyssey gets it wrong, it's just I prefer the sound a bit different. That's why I like MCACC, I can tweak to taste. MCACC always pulls down the 63HZ band around 5 dB and jacks up the 4k band about 4 or 5 dB. So I jack up the 63HZ to about -1 and pull down the 4k band to maybe +1. It sounds better to me that way, less strident. I think in the end it is what sounds best to you maybe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jollo View Post
    I have set it up with a meter. I'm not so sure MCACC or Audyssey gets it wrong, it's just I prefer the sound a bit different. That's why I like MCACC, I can tweak to taste. MCACC always pulls down the 63HZ band around 5 dB and jacks up the 4k band about 4 or 5 dB. So I jack up the 63HZ to about -1 and pull down the 4k band to maybe +1. It sounds better to me that way, less strident. I think in the end it is what sounds best to you maybe.
    Hi jollo,

    Let me ask, how much does a meter and the appropriate software cost? So far I've just been using Audyssey and the microphone included with my Denon, but the results always sound exaggerated to me. If it doesn't cost too much, I'd like to start doing this manually. Any advice?

    Yours,

    David

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    Audyssey is constrictive, when you can change certain things for fear of messing up the filters. The more measurements you have though, like Multieq and xt, help a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidjschenk View Post
    Hi jollo,

    Let me ask, how much does a meter and the appropriate software cost? So far I've just been using Audyssey and the microphone included with my Denon, but the results always sound exaggerated to me. If it doesn't cost too much, I'd like to start doing this manually. Any advice?

    Yours,

    David
    David,

    The Radio Shack Analog is what I, and many others use. Its about $50, and you can find it's error numbers on the web, where people have figured them out. I think, it reads like 1.5 decibals higher at 75, than it should be. The manual setup is really turning off all filtering SW, making exact speaker measurements with a tape measure, and entering them. You then set trim levels with the meter, at center position. Setting a sub is innacurate, and Ive found I like the level Audyssey uses, so I run Audyssey first. Im enjoying it more with Audyssey off.

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    Well, I certainly can spring more than fifty bucks for an accurate meter. What about software for taking readings? Is there one that's the standard?

    Yours,

    David

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    Just a simple SPL meter to set trim with the test tone



    http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103668

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